Monday, September 19, 2011

Indian music is about expression of mathematical constant pi

Many purists may disagree with me. Some may scold me for modelling in mathematics. But I have a natural inclination for mathematics and feel my duty to throw some light in this area.
In the northern and southern music there are 22 shrutis. Out of which 7 are important. 7/22 is 1/pi.
I will comment on Shrutis and swars in this section. Please feel free to blog your opinion.


  1. Shruti is a Sanskrit word which means to hear or heard.
    Shruti can be defined as the small sounds which can be easily be heard by the ears and can clearly be recognized.
    The 22 shrutis are:-
    2.Kumud Vati
    4.Chhando Vati
    5.Daya Vati

  2. In a Casio keyboard, starting at any note the frequency to other notes may be calculated from its frequency by
    Freq = note * 2^(N/12) , where N is the number of notes away from the starting note.

  3. In southern music, the shrutis Chhando Vati,Raktika,Krodhi,Marjini,Alapini,Ramya,Kshobini are Sa,Re,Ga,Ma,Pa,Dha,Ni.
    I can demonstrate the above if you are sitting beside me.It is difficult to do so in a blog. It can also be demonstrated that 72 Melkarta ragas are there in southern music.

  4. nice post.
    informative about the music

  5. In northern music Sa,Re, Ga, Ma, Pa, Dha, Ni are different shrutis than southern music. It did not make much mathematical sense to me. Maybe some of you may enlighten me on this.
    However, there are 10 thaats in northern music. Thaats are somewhat equivalent to southern Melkarta ragas. 10 makes a strong mathematical sense.

  6. I am hearing this, for the first time! Interesting!

  7. Welcome to my blog, Sandhya.
    I referred to the book "Theory of Indian Music", by Ram Avatar Vir, Pankaj Publications. Then I applied some of my own ideas and I "discovered" certain facts which I have blogged.
    I really do not want to challenge Chennai based carnatic music lovers. This is just for some fun.

  8. Some music directors enjoy being in resonance with their music and the response from fans. Some do not.
    It is in the welfare of nation that music is not enjoyed resonantly. We need to do productive work.

  9. When end points are known then our body has a tendency to find the middle point. This is an important concept.
    Extending the three points to all the four directions will give 12 points.
    This explains the theory behind casio.

  10. Origin of music
    I saw the movie Punnagai Mannan, a Kamal Haasan movie. He dances to an English song by Ilayaraja after setting timing beats of a instrument kept in a side table.
    The timing beats is somewhat similar to an hour glass. The sand empties from top to bottom. After the sand in up compartment gets over, then, only on tilting the glass upside down the sand falls again.
    The above is the origin of music. The time. No doubt the above concept on 12 points is true. Hope you have understood this.

  11. Thaats
    If you ask me then I would say that time of hindustani music is due to prime numbers. 7 days in a week, 61 seconds, 29/31 days in a month,367 days etc. All prime numbers.
    Prime numbers is a Ramanujan-Hardy thing. Thaats are south indian music inspired thing.

  12. Theory of primes
    In a large range of numbers (preferably starting from 1) the number of non-primes to number of primes may reach 10.

  13. Experimenting with hands
    Most will argue that thaats are due to fingers. Yes, that may be correct. It makes more sense.

  14. Taal
    Pyramids are not accurate representation of taal. Cone is.

  15. The reason for delay in explanation of above point is my love for squares and triangles. More than circles.
    But Taal has no beginning and end. Circle is a better explanation.

  16. Gayathri Fine Arts, Rohini, Delhi promotes carnatic music. They have been a source of inspiration for years. My relative is in its governing body.

  17. Pauli's exclusion principle better explained in circle.

  18. Firstly, hour glass is time of taal. Now the question arises whether the hour glass should be conical or pyramid.
    Area = Pressure / Force. I do not think the taal player can confidently say that he is sure of pressure and force everytime. In other words area cannot be determined accurately. Or in other words cone is better. Not pyramid. Because circle area cannot be determined accurately while square area can.
    So pyramid is not correct.

  19. The hour glass is like two hands. The center is zero. 1-5 in one side and 6 to 10 in other.
    When the glass is tilted the sand is emptied from 1-5 chamber. It starts filling the other chamber. The other chamber from 10.
    It is the human intelligence which believes that as soon as filling starts from 10, 9 has been reached. So what do we have. 1,2,3,4,5,9,10.
    In writing too we use one hand for holding paper and with the other hand we write. We use fingers 1,2,3,4,5,9,10.

  20. The numbers 1,2,3,4,5,9,10 was heard. Actions happened. Taal developed.

  21. The numbers 1,2,3,4,5,9,10 could be realisation of my musical Fresnel rings.

  22. The pyramids and islamic structures are completely wrong.
    1,2,3,4,5 are already there from top. (Somewhat like anti-particles).The people stand at bottom of pyramid. At 9,10.
    They are the ones who say 1,2,3,4,5,9,10.

  23. If someone asks me what is my composition power, I would say 45 degrees.

  24. 1,2,3,4,5,9,10 is wrong. There is a reason for it.
    50-50 is actually correct. Half filled and half empty.
    But in reality there may be some error. This error may cause sand in 10. And mind will perceive it as 9,10. So 1,2,3,4,5,9,10.
    Regarding writing, even a child will say thumb is different. So how?
    Heard. Yeah, how?

  25. Crucial things happen after prime number of years. I do not want to share this.
    Because of years, it can be conculded that solar years are important.

  26. If 1,2,3,4,5,9,10 is for sand (time) then there is 1,2,3,4,5,9,10 for space too (the other side).
    Is it special theory of relativity?

  27. it was a difficult but an essential necessity to explain fundamentals of music this way. i pondered many hours. i spent sleepless nights thinking whether to let loose the pi in me. i told myself, the time has come. i need to do what is intended.
    i bet 100:1 that there is no other better way of explaining music than hour glass. t and 1/t are explained better here. the taal and the frequency.
    in this process of explanation, if people are hurt, then i apologise for that.

  28. That deals with most important aspects of numbers.
    Thanks to Bollywood for their inspiring music which kept my thinking going. It was discovery and application.
    I shall try to visit Bollywood studios some time in future. $95 it is. Or maybe Noida studios.

  29. 1 + t = t*t , is the most famous equation for Fibonacci number.
    Consider, the following equations,
    1) t + 1 = x
    2) t*t + 1 = x
    3) t*t*t +1 = x
    When considered in a solution range 1 to 10;
    1) gives 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 as possible values of t [8 numbers]
    2) gives 5 and 10 as possible values of x [ Importance of doubling]
    3) gives 2 [2*2*2] for t and 9 for x [Importance of 2,4,8,9]
    The above 3 equations explain Sargam applied in casio completely and in a foolproof manner.
    There are eight swars. Double is important. Sa, Re, Ga, Ma[2,4,8,9] Pa Dha, Ni, Sa [2,4,8,9].
    Is there free passes to Film City?

  30. Why 1 plus t or t*t or t*t*t ?
    In early ADs in Tamil Nadu, sages asked "I know 1. He is God. Can I add with him? As a stick (t). Or as a paper (t*t). Or as a three d (t*t*t)"

  31. My taal is
    1 (jump) 4 (flat) 5
    1 (flat) 10.
    jump is squares. flat is number. It satisfies Pythagoras equation.
    I shall try to explain bollywood music incident.
    R D Burman and S D Burman had harmonious relationship. Earlier S D Burman was flat as the relationship was called "Son of S D Burman".
    Later R D Burman was flat as the relationship was called "Father of R D Burman".

  32. Sometimes I feel Bollywood Music and Mathematical Association of India should join hands and explore on the possibilities of dy * dx. Not dy/dx.
    Prime numbers says this.

  33. The middle portion of the four fingers of hand is 1/3rd of the whole finger. The beauty is if it is not 1/3rd. Never mind. It can be 1/3rd. Because of the gap in the lines of the middle part.
    If it were two parts then we would not be extroverted workers. This is the solution to Action by Self-Help.

  34. Music is nothing but 666 everywhere.

  35. Sa, Re, Ga, Ma, Pa, Dha, Ni are called Shuddh Swars.
    The notes between Shuddh Swars are Vikrith Swars.
    Sa, Pa are natural notes. Therefore Vikrith Swars are possible only for Re, Ga, Ma, Dha and Ni.
    Between Sa and Re is Komal Re.
    Between Re and Ga is Komal Ga.
    Between Ma and Pa is Teevra Ma.
    Between Pa and Dha is Komal Dha.
    Between Dha and Ni is Komal Ni.

  36. Where does lyrics and music meet?
    Vadi and Samvadi.
    These are important concepts. Phrases and expressions are made beautiful by Vadi and Samvadi. They are the dominant note at a phrase (Vadi) and at a expression (Samvadi).
    Kyon chalti hai pawan? is a Vadi at Dha.
    . . Na tum Jaano na hum is a Samvadi at Re.

  37. Wikipedia says Vadi is dominant note and often it is the most repeated note.
    Fine for instrumentals. But vocal? More specifically Filmy?
    I had this question answer music composition technique. And read about Vadi Samvadi. These two made resonance in my mind.
    I felt this is what is Vadi Samvadi.

  38. Pakad is another important concept in music.
    I am not wrong if I say I have pakad which enables me to identify music director of any randomly played song.
    To develop pakad, one needs to study tempo flow of a song.

  39. "Music is nothing but realization of 6666 everywhere" is not controversial at all.
    Humans have different thoughts at different times. At one time he feels fairness equation is correct. At other times he may feel doubling is a good way of expressing his world. But he fully knows that nothing is actually complete.
    Now taking the last two sentences about doubling and incompleteness, I would say 99999 is correct. i. e 33333 (himself) and 66666 (the world). It is not ego. But saying that the world is double as powerful.

  40. Two eyes and ears make sensing audio and images like tiime glass and 7 8 6 avoided.
    Two persons together may too. Also medical technology can make 786 avoidance feeling.
    But action is unilateral unlike sensing.

  41. My taal is unilateral and played with one hand.

  42. A step further to and deeper to 1,2,3,4,5,9,10 would be
    1,2,3,7,9 squares are 1,4,9,49,81.
    There are two important things to be noted. 4,9 and 49. Point 1.
    4 plus 9 is 13. 49 plus 81 is 130. 13, 130. Point 2.
    1,2,3,7,9 are possibly Fresnel rings realization. During those days of Fresnel rings, I had only Christian school friends.

  43. It is not unlucky. It is mathematical.
    2 is a trough.1,3,7,9 are crests. 1 to 3 is two. 7 to 9 is two. 3 to 7 is four. and 1 to 9 is 8.
    I wonder if it satisfies naval sea waves research theories. Because the distance between crests seem to be obeying Pythagoras.
    But point is, what about troughs?
    I would have explained like Da Vinci with illustrations. But who cares?

  44. "There is no other trough but at the beginning" is a powerful statement of mine.

  45. 2 is a trough. 1,3,7,9 are crests. This is a new vision.
    The earlier vision was
    2 ,6 are troughs. 1,3,9 are crests. What changed it?
    My thoughts, lifestyle, preferences changed it. It is somewhat like palm lines.

  46. 2,6 are troughs. 1,3,9 are crests. So ?
    2,6 are troughs. 1,3,9 are crests. 2,6 are gaps.
    It is 1 to 9 space which is 8 squared. This is equal to 1 to 3 squared ( 2 squared) plus 3 to 9 squared(6 squared). Plus two times 2 into 6.
    It is symmetrical. And is a formula for (a + b) squared.

  47. Though these are true to my beliefs. It is tough to prove my interpretations as accurate.

  48. Just like Ilayaraja compositions have changed, my life has changed.
    He cannot possibly compose another "En Uyire"(Poonthota Kavalkaran) type of song. I also cannot lead my old life.

  49. Music directors many times lead t * f life.
    Time multiplied by frequency life. This is my feeling.

  50. There are still many things to write about.
    One is the hour glass. Was it necessary? Second is the waves. What does it have to say about (a + b) squared ? Third where the hell are the waves in hand ?

  51. The wave like crests and troughs are there at the bone joint of the fingers with the palm when seen with fists closed and fists facing down. This answers the third question.
    Mridangam, Mellam, pakhawaj are old percussion instruments with a similar principle like an hour glass. Hence necessary. This answers first question.

  52. I feel there are PhD level material in this blog of Bollywood Music.
    However, my interest in PhD in music would be modernizing folk music. Something that Ilayaraja sir did in Tamil film music. I would like to do for Bengal, Rajasthan, UP etc.

  53. Using the crests and troughs of the fingers joint bone and using the numbers that I think about, I am able to get expressions for (a+b) squared and Pythagoras of doubling 2, 4 and 8. These make symmetry in me.
    I believe most of the happenings of the shapes of this world can be explained in terms of squares of all sizes.

  54. Split from 7 both ways
    6 becomes 5. 8 becomes 9. If split from 7 both ways.
    Common numbers now are
    This is what was heard.
    Circle is in fundus wound. However Archies stores sell hour glass deliberately made. Mridangam and pakhawaj are OK.

  55. The lyrics was "Kabho ki rani" from song "Dekhta hoon koi ladki haseen" from Sanam Teri Kasam.
    Kamal Haasan, R D Burman, Kishore Kumar, Reena Roy.

  56. 7,8,10 is good and another 1,2,3,4,5,9,10.

  57. 10 and 6 are equivalent. If palm is kept down 6. If up then 10.
    If we write 7,8,10 as 7,8,6; then we have a Pak number for " Bismillah Irrehman Irrahim".

  58. 1,2,3,4,7,8,6 are the numbers. 1,2,3,4 on left hand say and 7,8,6 on right hand.
    1squared plus 2 squared plus 3 squared plus 4 squared is 30.
    7 squared plus 8 squared plus 6 squared is 149.
    Such a good match !! Last ball six by Javed Miandad !!

  59. A recursive function cannot get out of control.
    A recursive tongue cannot be considered out of control.

  60. Like Raj Kapoor of "Mera Naam Joker", I love stones and people.

  61. I do not want 786 isolated for eyes. I do not want 786 isolated for ears. My tongue is pure. I want to be in rhythm with my heart.
    I may have a grudge zone. But I do not claim to be perfect.

  62. Hope to cure by Pentecostal teachers.

  63. I think it is pi which is important.And not root 2.

  64. The point for hexagon is the point where root 2 is determined. Are u with me?

  65. The only question now is how diameter. Is it not?

  66. Many guys missed IIT JEE and PETs. But they watch movies and become happy.
    If you are able to answer these questions, you may feel conqueror. If not, enjoy Bollywood Music !!

  67. The three equilateral triangle that will be on one side of diameter (by which diameter is identified) will make a pyramid.

  68. June 24, 2012 explained today. More than 3 years !!

  69. Please refer to comment on June 26, 2013.
    Sa Re Ga Ma (2, 4,8,9) and Pa Dha Ni Sa (2,4,8,9) in Casio.
    Sa Re Ga Ma is actually (2,4,6,7) and so would be Pa Dha Ni Sa.
    My defence is 3d. 3d is 2d applied twice.

  70. 2,4 will become 3,5 so to speak in two steps. Either 3,4 or 2,5 as the first and 3,5 as the second.
    Overall three sets of Pythagorean addition happen.
    2 and 4 giving 6. 3 and 4 or 2 and 5 giving 7. Then 3 and 5 gives 8.

  71. Now, because 3d is 2d applied twice, there are two possible values after 2 and 4. Namely, 6 and 7 or 7 and 8.
    My contention is 2,4,8,9 is not completely wrong.

  72. 0,2,4,5 and 7,9,11,12 are sa re ga ma pa dha ni sa.
    There is 30% deviation in my sargam theory.
    12 notes instead of 10. Other error is 2,4,8,9 explanation which is only partially correct.

  73. It is the tempo which makes you believe in the Pythagoras of hearing.
    Grande Andando Italia !! Andare Avanti Rahul !!

  74. a ^ 1/n in series addition will result in a value with to the power 1/n.
    This is interesting.